Comments on: Don’t Stop the Carnival http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/dont-stop-the-carnival-2/20081428 London News and Opinion Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:11:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Thomas the Taxi http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/dont-stop-the-carnival-2/20081428/comment-page-1#comment-922 Thomas the Taxi Sat, 11 Oct 2008 05:03:46 +0000 http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/wp/?p=1428#comment-922 Damian I think you are wrong to compare the Carnival with a football match or New years eve. I can not see why this event has been aloud go outgrow the area in which it is staged. I too lived in the area until the 80's when I decided it was no longer a safe enough area to bring up my children. I like you moved out of this area, in my case because of the drugs, and the crime. My mother who is 90 still lives in the area and we have to take her away for the two days Carnival is staged. I have to bolt her place down like fort knocks for the weekend. When we arrive back on the Tuesday we find beer cans, garbage and all kinds of drug paraphernalia in her garden and the smell is unbelievable. The Notting Hill Carnival has become a political tool. It should have been kept for the locals to enjoy but has now become too large for any police force to handle efficiently . We do not see this level of violence and crime on St Patrick's Night ( and now week end). Politicians have in the past been frightened to curtail this event for fear of being branded racists, therefore it was expanded to a two day free for all where muggings, rapes, riots, assaults take place regularly, not forgetting the odd murder. Not a bit like New Years eve. Damian, I have supported your views in the past but I am afraid this is one subject I have to disagree on. Damian
I think you are wrong to compare the Carnival with a football match or New years eve. I can not see why this event has been aloud go outgrow the area in which it is staged. I too lived in the area until the 80’s when I decided it was no longer a safe enough area to bring up my children.
I like you moved out of this area, in my case because of the drugs, and the crime. My mother who is 90 still lives in the area and we have to take her away for the two days Carnival is staged. I have to bolt her place down like fort knocks for the weekend. When we arrive back on the Tuesday we find beer cans, garbage and all kinds of drug paraphernalia in her garden and the smell is unbelievable.
The Notting Hill Carnival has become a political tool. It should have been kept for the locals to enjoy but has now become too large for any police force to handle efficiently . We do not see this level of violence and crime on St Patrick’s Night ( and now week end). Politicians have in the past been frightened to curtail this event for fear of being branded racists, therefore it was expanded to a two day free for all where muggings, rapes, riots, assaults take place regularly, not forgetting the odd murder.
Not a bit like New Years eve.
Damian, I have supported your views in the past but I am afraid this is one subject I have to disagree on.

]]> By: Damian Hockney http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/dont-stop-the-carnival-2/20081428/comment-page-1#comment-921 Damian Hockney Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:04:20 +0000 http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/wp/?p=1428#comment-921 Thomas the Taxi, I lived in Talbot Road off Powis Square during the years when carnival was at its most rowdy. In spite of some serious access problems to my own home, I supported carnival fully. I can assure you that making it some sort of static park-based show is more, not less, likely to create disorder...there's no natural instinct or driving force that says people won't cause disorder in a park. Banning it is simply not an option: it will happen in some form anyway. Wherever there are large numbers of people there is the opportunity for crime. Soccer matches? New Year's Eve? Small numbers of people will be intent on crime. Does this mean that because of those small numbers, events like Carnival have to go? Most of the arrests are for relatively minor things. Sorry but it is just plain wrong to suggest that it is a reason to scrap the event, and it would be an appalling precedent. The answer is to ensure that we give the police the resources to run an intelligence-based operation...and they are doing a good job. This is not about 'diversity', it's about the right to stage public events and the need to develop appropriate policing and management. Overall, the signs are good. Thomas the Taxi, I lived in Talbot Road off Powis Square during the years when carnival was at its most rowdy. In spite of some serious access problems to my own home, I supported carnival fully. I can assure you that making it some sort of static park-based show is more, not less, likely to create disorder…there’s no natural instinct or driving force that says people won’t cause disorder in a park. Banning it is simply not an option: it will happen in some form anyway. Wherever there are large numbers of people there is the opportunity for crime. Soccer matches? New Year’s Eve? Small numbers of people will be intent on crime. Does this mean that because of those small numbers, events like Carnival have to go? Most of the arrests are for relatively minor things. Sorry but it is just plain wrong to suggest that it is a reason to scrap the event, and it would be an appalling precedent. The answer is to ensure that we give the police the resources to run an intelligence-based operation…and they are doing a good job. This is not about ‘diversity’, it’s about the right to stage public events and the need to develop appropriate policing and management. Overall, the signs are good.

]]> By: Thomas the Taxi http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/dont-stop-the-carnival-2/20081428/comment-page-1#comment-920 Thomas the Taxi Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:01:08 +0000 http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/wp/?p=1428#comment-920 Tawkin, Sunday is the children's Carnival. You should have gone back on the Monday to see the real Carnage. 11,000 police officers, 300 arrests and running battles with the police. Previous years have seen many stabbing/slashings, muggings and even a murder. That should be enough evidence to say to the organisers of the Notting Hill carnival move it to Hyde park where it can be policed better, or scrap it completely. You don't have this type of civil unrest at the proms in the park! How much longer are we to see our tax money wasted on this unsafe and highly dangerous event in which the inhabitants of Notting Hill are kept out of, or kept prisoner in, their own homes. All in the name of diversity. Tawkin I would lay money that you and Damian do not live in Notting Hill. Tawkin, Sunday is the children’s Carnival. You should have gone back on the Monday to see the real Carnage.
11,000 police officers, 300 arrests and running battles with the police. Previous years have seen many stabbing/slashings, muggings and even a murder. That should be enough evidence to say to the organisers of the Notting Hill carnival move it to Hyde park where it can be policed better, or scrap it completely. You don’t have this type of civil unrest at the proms in the park!
How much longer are we to see our tax money wasted on this unsafe and highly dangerous event in which the inhabitants of Notting Hill are kept out of, or kept prisoner in, their own homes. All in the name of diversity.
Tawkin I would lay money that you and Damian do not live in Notting Hill.

]]> By: TawkinSenz http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/dont-stop-the-carnival-2/20081428/comment-page-1#comment-919 TawkinSenz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/wp/?p=1428#comment-919 Having been to my first carnival on Sunday I was very surprised to see that it wasn't the dangerous and crime rife place that the press suggest every year. We took a 5 year old child with us and I was a bit apprehensive about safety - but once I arrived I could see it was not going to be a problem. My concern - similar to Damian - is that too much meddling will destroy and event like this - it's success is down to the fact that it is a public event, produced and run by the public and there is very little state involvement. Purists will claim there is no need for a police presence at all, but regardless of that I could see no signs of animosity. I am however surprised to see the BBC has headlined local London news with 'trouble at the carnival' - most of which seems to have occurred in Lambeth where they stopped 157 people from going based on police intelligence. Regardless of whether this intelligence was right or wrong, I would expect stopping that many people going somehwere was going to result in trouble and it cannot be avoided. I must stress that everyone needs to see for themselves what a safe environment it is, Monday evening seems to be the time to avoid as people are most drunk and most out of control. Apart from that it's as safe as visiting buckingham palace. I totally agree that the route iteslf (as it is) makes the carnival and that meddling from politicians is what will wreck the event. I think the police have learnt over the years how to manage an event like this one and do a very effective (but not too visible) job. Long live the carnival - we will be attending next year and at the moment it ranks no.1 in the famous London events I have seen since I have been here for the last 6 years surpassing the wonderful fireworks at New Years eve and the London Marathon. P.s. To the editor - start a piece on 'the best London event ever' and 'the best London event annually' as I may be mistaken. Having been to my first carnival on Sunday I was very surprised to see that it wasn’t the dangerous and crime rife place that the press suggest every year. We took a 5 year old child with us and I was a bit apprehensive about safety – but once I arrived I could see it was not going to be a problem.
My concern – similar to Damian – is that too much meddling will destroy and event like this – it’s success is down to the fact that it is a public event, produced and run by the public and there is very little state involvement.

Purists will claim there is no need for a police presence at all, but regardless of that I could see no signs of animosity. I am however surprised to see the BBC has headlined local London news with ‘trouble at the carnival’ – most of which seems to have occurred in Lambeth where they stopped 157 people from going based on police intelligence. Regardless of whether this intelligence was right or wrong, I would expect stopping that many people going somehwere was going to result in trouble and it cannot be avoided.
I must stress that everyone needs to see for themselves what a safe environment it is, Monday evening seems to be the time to avoid as people are most drunk and most out of control. Apart from that it’s as safe as visiting buckingham palace.
I totally agree that the route iteslf (as it is) makes the carnival and that meddling from politicians is what will wreck the event. I think the police have learnt over the years how to manage an event like this one and do a very effective (but not too visible) job.
Long live the carnival – we will be attending next year and at the moment it ranks no.1 in the famous London events I have seen since I have been here for the last 6 years surpassing the wonderful fireworks at New Years eve and the London Marathon.

P.s. To the editor – start a piece on ‘the best London event ever’ and ‘the best London event annually’ as I may be mistaken.

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